Pondering a question from the audience, Rabbi Frederick Wenger nods thoughtfully and then responds, "Everybody has a right to an education without having their religious sensibilities violated."
"What about my rights?" a student asks. "If you're going to take my right away, it's the same as telling someone they have to sing the song."Across the room, another student leaps out of her chair and fires back, "It's a question of tolerance."
At issue is whether it was appropriate for West High School students to sing the song "Friends" at their graduation and, more broadly, whether religious music has a place in a public school.
Rabbi Wenger, the guest lecturer at West High's new First Amendment class forum, had framed the question as one that cannot be resolved by the courts alone.
"It's not only, `When is it legal?' " he said, "It's `When does it feel right?' "
The three dozen students listened attentively to his remarks, frequently asking him to speak louder or to repeat a comment, and then the subject was theirs to discuss and debate.
"No one's asking you to believe it - just sing it," one girl suggested, glancing at Rachel Bauchman, the student who challenged the school's music program in federal court.
A member of the a capella choir, Bauchman objected to the inclusion of religious songs, including "Friends," in the choir's repertoire. A federal court agreed and banned its performance at the school's commencement exercises, though some students sang it anyway.
The controversy attracted national attention and opened up bitter divisions at West High and the community at large. Hoping to bridge the gulf with dialogue, University of Utah law professor Edwin B. Firmage offered his services in the creation of a First Amendment class coupled with a weekly forum open to students, parents and visitors.
"We didn't set out with any specific goals in mind," Firmage said, "we simply wanted to get the kids, the parents and everybody else talking."
The purpose was not to change anyone's mind, Firmage said. "We can't necessarily resolve the dispute. The idea is to get to the root causes, to get young people to see that there are very legitimate points of view."
By all accounts, the first-of-its-kind program has achieved that modest goal. According to Firmage, participating lecturers and West High faculty, the students are talking, and, more importantly, listening to each other.
That was clearly the case during Rabbi Wenger's recent presentation. Like the judges, lawyers and other community leaders who were guests at the previous First Amendment forums, Rabbi Wenger offered his thoughts and then invited an open and frank discussion.
He said if he were invited to a Catholic friend's confirmation or to a Mormon friend's missionary send-off - or if they were invited to a bar mitzvah - each would expect and respect the right of the hosts to adhere to the ways of their religion. And all would recognize the right of the guest not to participate in any prayer or ceremony that might offend his religious views.
But in America's public schools and government institutions, there is no "host" and no "guest," Rabbi Wenger said. The institutions belong to everyone.
In other words, the majority cannot assume the prerogative of the host and "invite" a captive minority to join them in a religious activity or "sit it out" like polite guests.
"And to give each of the faiths a shot at pitching their message to kids is not the right answer," he added. Sanctioning prayer at government-sponsored events, whether spoken or in song, "confuses the young, at best, and offends the mature, at best."
As for religious songs, Rabbi Wenger suggested the great classics have a place in a balanced music curriculum, just as the study of religion - all religions - have a place in history courses. "Friends," he argued, probably doesn't rise to that level and had no place at the graduation ceremony.
But many of the students disagreed. "It's a tradition," a young man insisted in support of what seemed to be the majority view at the forum. "My grandparents sang it when they were here; my parents sang it."
"We need to stop focusing on a single song," another student replied.
"The idea is tolerance. Where does the right of the minority end and the tyranny of the majority begin?" Rabbi Wenger said. "It's only when the principles of civility and mutual respect are abridged that we have problems."
For several of the students, the argument came down to a question of force: No one was forcing anyone to sing anything. "If I want to sit in class and read the Book of Mormon, why can't I? I'm not forcing anyone else to read it," one student said.
After more give and take along the same lines, Bauchman joined the discussion. She said it wasn't fair to tell people to just not sing the song if they didn't like it.
"The issue is not that I don't like the song. I don't like imposing my beliefs on someone else," she said. "Why shouldn't we respect everyone's beliefs so the graduation ceremony can be for all of us?"
"This kind of controversy and discussion is healthy," Rabbi Wenger said.