Thousands of Utahns who are considered child abusers by the state may not even know an allegation has been made. And they may not find out until they're denied the right to run certain types of businesses.

Rep. Byron L. Harward, R-Provo, tells how a woman found herself listed as a "substantiated" child abuser years after the fact. No one had talked to her about the alleged incident.The woman specialized in taking difficult foster children and had done so for some time. One of the children, long out of her care, got into legal trouble in California and, "trying to justify her actions," told of her days with that foster mother. She said she'd been forced to pull thorny weeds without gloves and shovel snow in her bare feet.

A California investigator talked to the girl and decided her accusations were true. He never talked to the foster mother, but he did send her name in to Utah's child-abuse registry and database.

As a result, when the woman went to renew her foster-care license, she was disqualified as a "child abuser." She denies any abuse.

About 5,400 Utahns are listed on the database, which tracks cases where abuse or neglect have been "substantiated." Of those, about 1,290 were taken to court. Another estimated 4,100 have never had due-process hearings. Some probably wouldn't have requested it. But many never knew they were on the list, Harward said.

Now the Utah Legislature will be asked to change the way the registry and database work so that people cannot be denied business licenses without first at least knowing they are on the registry. The Administrative Rules Review Committee, of which Harward is cochairman, has produced recommendations it hopes will protect both children and people accused of hurting them. Thursday, the Child Welfare Legislative Oversight Committee heard about those recommendations but withheld action until its next meeting.

In studying the database, Harward said, the committee concluded it was serving two functions that "didn't overlap very well." While the state, acting as parent to the children in its custody, has to be able to make decisions about where a child should be placed, "where it decides the right to own a business or operate in the community, there must be a different standard."

Right now, the Division of Child and Family Services and the Office of Licensing use the same information for both jobs.

"There are thousands on the list who have been substantiated and we can't just throw them out," Harward told the panel. "But many were not ever notified."

Under the proposal, hammered out by an interdisciplinary team of child advocates, there will be two separate lists. One, used by Child and Family Services, will operate as before. The other, for use in licensing of businesses, will not list a name until a due-process hearing has been held, if requested. People will be notified of substantiated child-abuse claims against them. And they can appeal the decision through several steps, clear to the district court.

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When a case is referred to court for action, that is considered due process, and the administrative appeals process doesn't apply.

Assistant Attorney General Carol Verdoia admitted state officials worry about the increased workload involved in mailing notices to everyone and in running the appeals process, since several thousand Utahns could be entitled to due process. But the alternative, she said - not being able to have the information when licensing a program - would be worse.

Verdoia said that a hearing has always been available to people on the registry. But the rub, according to Harward, is that so many people didn't know they were listed. And they didn't find out while evidence and memories were still fresh.

The proposal isn't perfect, he said. But in the past, people were "assumed guilty until they could prove their innocence, and they were not even told of the need to prove innocence."

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