Call Nolan Karras a moderate and he laughs, then says, "You might as well call me a liberal."
Jon Huntsman Jr. has a similar answer: A moderate? No way.
"I've been called everything from a Democrat to the radical right wing," said Huntsman. "I'm neither. I'm a Ronald Reagan Republican. Some may say that's the true conservative Republican. I'm fine with that."
After Saturday's state Republican convention, Hunts-
man and Karras will now face each other in a June 22 closed GOP primary. And some may wonder if two "moderates" came out of the convention, leaving the true conservatives behind.
For now, Gayle Ruzicka, head of Utah Eagle Forum and active in the party on local and national levels, says Huntsman and Karras are conservatives in her book.
"With Nolan we have a track record from years ago when he was speaker" of the Utah House, she said. "He certainly is a fiscal conservative. Huntsman has no such voting record, but he's sat in my living room and said the right things."
Only registered Republicans will be able to vote in the June primary, but the law allows any unaffiliated voter — one not registered in any other party — to register as a Republican at the polls and pick up a Republican ballot next month.
Thus, not only the hard-core, longtime Republicans can vote next month. Most Utahns can participate, as only a small percentage of voters are registered Democrats or some other party. And since Democrats have no major primaries, both Huntsman and Karras could conceivably score a few points with the voting public if they moved more to the middle.
But both men say the conservative suit fits fine.
There are some bellwether issues on which conservatives can measure either candidate and judge whether the suit is an exact fit:
Money matters
"By Utah standards, I'm not an ultraconservative," Karras said. "But I'm as conservative as any of these guys who ran" in the eight-member governor's race.
"I was the guy talking about the fact that Utah's budget has grown from $3 billion to $8 billion since 1992. We can't sustain that kind of spending growth. I'm the guy talking about our $2 billion in bonded indebtedness," says Karras, who as House speaker and finance chairman of the 2002 Winter Olympics, has put together multibillion-dollar budgets.
Huntsman said he worked in the Reagan White House and served as an ambassador in both Bush administrations. President Bush "is showing what being a conservative Republican is all about. I'm proud" to be categorized the same.
Concerning the state's debt, Huntsman said, "We can't endanger our AAA bond rating." And while he wants to cut the sales tax on "our most basic food staples, like meat and potatoes," he wouldn't harm local government's sales tax revenue in the process, he said.
Huntsman says the state per-gallon gasoline tax, not raised since 1997 for inflation, may have to be "revisited" over the next four years but not in 2005.
Karras says raising the gas tax would just be used to pay off outstanding road bonds "and wouldn't build one new road." Politically speaking, "I won't go near that one. We have to resort the deck" in road funding "and find value for our dollar spent."
School choice
Karras says from what he knows of state Rep. James Ferrin's tuition tax credit bill, he would have signed it if it had passed the 2004 Legislature.
The bill would have offered an income tax credit to parents whose children attend private school. Public education supporters claim such credits would hurt public education, which is funded through income tax revenue. Karras says school choice is coming, and a way can be found not to negatively impact public schools.
What did pass last session was the Carson Smith Special Needs Scholarship bill, which would have provided a tax voucher to parents of disabled children to offset the tuition paid to a private school. Gov. Olene Walker vetoed the bill.
"I would have signed the Carson Smith bill," Karras said. "But we have to keep both sides" of the tuition tax credit issue "in the same tent talking."
Ditto Huntsman. "Yes, I'd have signed the Ferrin bill. Moreover, let's fix the Carson Smith bill. Let's pass it and give it a try. I'd even broaden its categories" to include other disabilities. He said that new law would be a good test whether tuition tax credits for children in private schools would financially harm the public education system.
Guns on campus
Karras said even though he is chairman of the Board of Regents, which oversees Utah's public colleges and universities, "my personal opinion is the University of Utah should follow the law" in allowing legally permitted concealed weapons owners to carry their guns on campus.
The U. sued the state and was allowed to enforce its weapons ban, but the state has appealed to the state Supreme Court.
Karras acknowledges it was the Board of Regents' official position to the 2004 Legislature that all colleges should be allowed to set their own gun policies.
"It was a tough issue for me as a regent and a candidate. But you have to say follow the law," said Karras.
On this 2nd Amendment, gun rights litmus test, Huntsman is less rigid.
Quoting Abraham Lincoln principles, Huntsman, whose family has close ties to the U., said entities closest to the situations should make the decisions. "But the issue is in court. The U. thinks there are constitutional issues. I support the U.'s right to seek those answers and as governor would support the court's ruling."
Parental rights
Finally, Karras says "from all I've heard on the campaign trail, the state has gone a bit too far" on the tough issue of parental rights vs. the state taking children out of a family's home.
The issue has simmered for years on Capitol Hill and boiled over in the 2004 session with nearly 30 proposals introduced seeking to change the way the state manges its child welfare cases. Fewer than a half dozen of the so-called "Parker Jensen" bills passed, named after a boy whose family refused the state's orders to have him undergo chemotherapy.
"The overriding issue is we have to protect kids. As governor, I'm going to hold the Division of Child and Family Services accountable. But I'm going to back 'em up, too," Karras said. "Truth is, we don't solve this issue by legislation, but by good management."
Said Huntsman: "I stand tall for parental rights. Clearly, there are some egregious cases" where the state took and/or held custody of children where it should not have. "If the parent is competent, and is not abusive, the parent has ultimate say over the child."
While the candidates are saying the right things, there are some lingering concerns, Ruzicka said.
For Karras it's his commitment to school choice. "He's friends with (Utah Gov.) Olene Walker, and she definitely was the UEA candidate. And some worry about Huntsman's international ideas," such as United Nations and World Bank issues, Ruzicka said. "I'm sure conservatives want to sit down with both men again" before the primary to get more detailed answers to questions.
E-mail: bbjr@desnews.com