When the Senate Judiciary, Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee meets Friday, Sen. Mark Madsen hopes to have a new gun-rights bill that will have a better chance of passing.
On Wednesday, the bill that would let motorists carry a loaded, concealed weapon anywhere in their vehicle appeared doomed as personal property rights and child-safety issues swayed most of the committee to oppose it.
Along with an amendment, which will deal with the child-safety issues, Madsen said he will attempt to persuade the committee that arguments on property rights are overblown.
"Hopefully, I can make sure the property-rights issue is a non-issue; it's completely bogus," the Lehi Republican said.
The motion to put SB24 on the next agenda came after it was clear Madsen didn't have the votes he needed to advance the bill.
SB24 would ease gun laws regarding business owners and on how a firearm can be carried inside a vehicle.
Under the bill, all legal gun owners would be permitted to carry a loaded, concealed firearm anywhere in their car. Currently, a weapon cannot be loaded and must be in a gun rack, gun case or the trunk. The exception is if the owner has a concealed weapons permit, which allows him to carry a loaded firearm anywhere in his vehicle.
Also, Madsen wants to enable people who have "control" of a business to have a gun at the business, whether they own the business or not. That would mean, a store clerk could have a loaded firearm on the premises.
"I think it's inappropriate that Utah should be an island of gun control in the Intermountain West," Madsen said.
But Steve Gunn, who is on the Gun Owners of Utah's board, said the bill would extend concealed weapon permit rights to youth.
"The bill expands the class of people who can carry a loaded weapon in a vehicle," he said.
Those safety concerns had some senators a bit gun shy to support the bill.
"I think (a gun) poses more of a threat if it is in fact loaded," Sen. Al Mansell, R-Sandy, said. "I'm not sure I want everybody so readily available to take a shot."
Although Madsen said he will amend his bill to address the safety issues for minors, the Utah state liaison for the National Rifle Association thinks the bill in its current form would actually make driving with weapons more secure.
"I would argue that this makes carrying a firearm safer for children in vehicle . . . because it would allow you to put the firearm in the glove box or under the seat out of the kid's reach," Brian Judy said.
Gun Owners of Utah Policy Director Charles Hardy agrees and said statistics backed that assertion.
"FBI crime statistics . . . show no obvious correlation between laws in this regard and violent crime," he said.
But another concern legislators had was based on the business stipulation in bill, which they felt could allow general mangers or even clerks at convenience stores to carry a gun to work without the owner's permission.
"We assert as employers of the state of Utah we have a right to prohibit weapons at the workplace. We believe this bill calls into question an employer's private property rights," said Larry Bunkall, speaking for a coalition of business owners. "We believe we would (still) have control, but it would be contested."
"I can't vote for the provision in this bill that deals with workplace safety," said Sen. Gregory Bell, R-Fruit Heights and committee chairman.
Madsen stressed that SB24 dealt only with the criminal code, so a business owner who didn't want his or her employees to carry a weapon to work could fire anyone who disobeyed the rule.
The primary intention of the bill is to clarify the existing law, which proponents called vague.
E-mail: pnagy@desnews.com