Win a few, lose a few, that’s the recipe for a .500 season. Just ask the Utah men’s basketball team. But with the Utes coming off an easy win over Colorado at home and with road games at Stanford (Thursday) and Cal (Saturday) — winnable games one could argue — a successful trip could bode well for a young team still trying to find itself. Meanwhile, the Ute women continue to roll, as do the Red Rocks. Insiders Dirk Facer, Mike Sorensen and Trent Wood weigh in on these stories, reminisce about the legendary Bruce Woodbury, and catch up with former Ute great Jimmy Soto. That and more on this week’s Ute Insiders podcast.
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Editor’s note: The following is a transcript of the episode. It's been edited for clarity.
Dirk Facer: On this edition of the Deseret News Ute Insiders podcast we talk basketball, men and women. We also meet up with Jimmy Soto in our Utah by 5 segment, and we talk about our good friend Bruce Woodbury, who passed away. This and more on the Deseret News Ute Insiders podcast.
Welcome to another edition of the Desert News Ute Insiders podcast. I'm Dirk Facer, joined here with Mike Sorensen and Trent Wood. Guys, we're back at it. Always a pleasure. It's basketball season. Let's dive right in. The Utes at 9-8. Barely above .500. Mike, do you see them climbing above .500 by season's end?
Mike Sorensen: It's gonna be tough. I think they're just a .500 team. And I think this weekend is going to be a key one for them, because they've got two winnable games. And if they can win one or both of those that can go a long way toward giving them a winning record. But if they lose both of them I think they're going to be under .500.
DF: Trent, you've had a chance to see the Utes in action. Do you think there's a problem or do you think they're just young?
Trent Wood: I think this is just who they are. I think it's far enough in the season — they're a .500 team. There's going to be games where they play well, there's going to be games where they don't.
DF: I kind of misspoke, saying will they get above .500? They are above .500. But my question is, do you ever see a point where maybe they're two or three games above .500? Or do you think they really are going to be a 50-50 team this year?
MS: Well, this weekend is key because if they can win those both they're gonna be three games above .500. And that should keep them up for quite a while. They've got two home games after that, right? But these are two of the worst teams in the league, at least two of the four worst, so if they lose these games it's going to be an uphill battle the rest of the year for them.
DF: Sunday night, the Utes beat Colorado 78-69. Very interesting game because in the first half, the Utes probably played as good as they've played all season long. Do you think we got a glimpse of what they can be this season, or do you think that was just an aberration? They held Colorado to 19 points in the first half.
MS: We've seen that all season though, where they have one great half and one terrible half or poor half. I mean, it's just been a typical thing, going back to the preseason. They just blow a team out and then they kind of let up. They just can't put teams away or something. It's kind of an odd thing, but it's nothing new with the Utes.
TW: That has to go to their youth, right. You think the more experienced they'd be the more consistent they'd be and it's just as any young team, they have moments where they play really well and moments where they don't.
DF: Larry Krystkowiak, in his press conference this week, kind of summarized the Colorado game and let's hear from coach:
Larry Krystkowiak: I think it's kind of a microcosm of our whole season, except we were fortunate enough to get a win and be fairly dominant in one of those halfs. But it's right before your eyes. All we had to do was play 40 minutes and get a good indication of when we're successful and when we're not successful. And it really started with some defensive energy and sharing the ball. When we brought those two to the table we were as good as we've been all year. And when we got a little bit interested in seeing if we were, you know, we had five straight shots at the end of the first half that were not Utah shots. It was kind of a test to see — things were so easy, let's just sling up some points here and had a couple charges and a couple of ill-advised shots. And that was a little downer at halftime and then came out, we didn't play with the same aggressiveness obviously, on the defensive end. And they went on a little run in the second half.
We talk about both, they're going to see clips of when we were really good and clips when we weren't, and keep affirming what it is when we play good basketball and hopefully through these experiences and the visual and going through it, it's going to validate more what it is we're talking about.
DF: Hey, that was good to hear from the coach. Mike, you're going on the trip this week to Stanford and Cal, what are you expecting? You kind of mentioned that these are two of the poorer teams in the conference, obviously, but Larry Krystkowiak said that Stanford's got a lot of long, tall guys and they could cause some problems. Do you see any problems on this trip?
MS: Just playing Stanford alone is a problem because they have their own five there. They haven't won at Stanford since 1966. Even longer than Arizona. They won in there in the '80s at least. So this has been the worst place for them to play, along with Arizona, since they've been in the Pac-12. So yeah, they've lost five games. But one was by 1, one was by 2, one was by 3; 6 last time around. So they've always been close. Had one blowout. So it's just a tough place for them to go. Even though we've had better teams. Even those teams with Delon Wright and Kyle Kuzma — they had two NBA guys on that team. And they missed four free throws in the last 19 seconds. They should have won that game in '16. In '17, I was over for that game. And it was tied with about five minutes to go and down the stretch they just couldn't hang on. So for some reason, that's a tough place to win. No matter how good Stanford is.
Stanford's about like Utah this year. They're just a .500 team; they're 2-4 in the league. So they have the advantage of being at home but it's one that Utah can certainly take if they if they play like the play when they play better.
DF: And then Saturday at Cal, that should be a W.
MS: Should be. Cal's 5-11. They're 0-6 in league — they're the worst in the league. So if Utah loses that game that's going to be a long upward struggle the rest of the year. I think they'll finish in the bottom four if that happens. But two wins this week. They have two home games against the Oregon schools. They can be right back in the top three or four, and then from there if they get confidence they can hang on and maybe have a decent finish and be 11-7 or 12-6 or something like that and be in the top four again.
DF: With the tournament in Vegas being wide open this year, can the No. 4 seed win the tournament? I mean, if Utah were to sneak in the top four is it out of the realm of possibility?
MS: Getting to the top four is a very good possibility because they always seem to get there. And this year you figure there's really three good teams in the league: Washington, Arizona, Arizona State are kind of above the rest. So Utah could slip into that fourth spot. And then I think those teams aren't so outstanding. In the past Arizona was always so great when they were a top-10 team, Utah figured they'd never beat them. And Oregon always is great, and Oregon lost their best player this year. So there's a chance but it's a long way away and a long uphill battle to get there because they've got to be a lot more consistent than they have been.
DF: Trent, if the young guys develop, do you see them being a contender at the end? Obviously a guy like Timmy Allen right now is on a trajectory where he's getting double-doubles all of a sudden. If he gets better than that, do you see it in the realm of possibility they can get in that top four?
TW: Yeah, if they continue to improve the way they have. Like you said, they already are playing well. I think you can argue that their freshmen have been their most consistent performers this year. Maybe different ones at different times. And so you would think that as the season goes on, they get more experience, more comfort playing basketball in college, and the team would improve.
DF: Mike, let's jump to attendance for just a minute. Have you seen attendance this low?
MS: One of my pet peeves, you know, I was at those preseason games and they would say 10,000 people were there and the curtains were closed. And so that meant there were only 8,000 seats below. You know, there must have been 2,000 people hiding up above. Plus, it was a maybe only half full. So I go back to the days when I covered Rick Majerus and those teams for almost 10 years and it used to be 14,000-plus a night. And it was 14,000, it was packed right to the rafters. And so nowadays they count people who just buy the tickets. The other night they said 10,000, right? For that game on Sunday afternoon. I figured no more than 4,000. That's what I would guess. What do you think?
DF: I think you're right. And they came late too.
MS: Oh, well, of course. So I'm thinking if there's 4,000 people there, you know, are there 6,000 people who bought seats who aren't coming? Something's going on there. I know it happens everywhere too. All over the country people inflate their their stats. Although there are some teams the Pac-12 who say 2,000 or 3,000 people. So they must not be inflating theirs as much as Utah is. But it does make you scratch your head and wonder how they can continually have 10,000 every game when there's never more than 6,000 or 7,000 at the most, maybe 3,000 or 4,000.
DF: Maybe Trent, being the youngster here, can address this better. Is college basketball not a cool place to go watch games now? I mean is the NBA so big that college basketball is secondary?
TW: I know people love to tout college football and the NBA especially here in Salt Lake as reasons for why attendance at the U. is down, but I think college basketball games, the environment as a fan there is the most fun environment of any sporting event you can go to. It's just loud and you're on your feet the entire time. College football games are really fun. But it's so long and there are lulls in the game. But college basketball's almost nonstop action, on your feet. Screaming. The attendance thing, I think it has to do with just a lack of consistency with Utah basketball. I think if they were consistently one of the top three teams in the Pac-12, and making the tournament regularly, at least like every other year, I think people would go. But the fact that they go to the NIT, and they have years with a step back, and so many transfers from the team as well every year. There's no continuity and fans don't get to latch on to players.
DF: I did a story on that last year about the transfers and that. It's just an epidemic I think, across the board, but obviously it hurts because fans don't get to associate with certain players. Mike, you and I have been going to these games for years. In the past when attendance dipped, that's usually when a coaching change came shortly thereafter, because the program obviously wasn't winning consistently. Do you think the fans are staying away because there is no consistency with the wins? Or do you think times have just changed in college basketball?
MS: I think it's mostly the latter. Times have changed. I mean, I hate to sound like an old-timer. But when I was in college, back in the '70s, you know, they would fill up sections A, B and C with students all the way to the top. Now you look over at the MUSS section and there's maybe a couple hundred fans. My son's actually one of them and he talks about how there's just no interest among the students. So that's dipped considerably. And then also just generally, college basketball, everywhere you look, has gone down. I mean, I hate to say it, but most of the fans there are older fans that have been coming for last 30 or 40 years and I don't see a lot of younger people. I think that's the case all over the country. You see all these huge arenas, you know, Weber State has a huge arena and they don't get very many people. In Wyoming, and all these places that have these big huge arenas that, back in the '70s that was a big deal. Now I think they'd build them probably half as big because I'm afraid to say that college basketball has kind of gone down and I'm afraid it will keep going down or stay the same. Too much TV could be part of it and then just too many other interests besides sports.
DF: I agree with Trent, the environment there's great. I mean, it's fun place. Young-uns bring their kids, it's a fun atmosphere and environment. And we'll see. I think the coach and his staff, they work awful hard and they put that program back on the map. But a couple years away from the NCAA Tournament and people forget, you know, and they want to see some winning.
Speaking of winning, the Utah women are on a roll.
TW: They just got their first top-25 ranking in over a decade, at No. 21, they jumped in. They have one loss. They just continue to roll against everybody they play.
DF: Lynne Roberts has done a great job getting that program back on the map and they're fun to watch. Going into a difficult stretch of scheduling, I believe they play ranked teams the next three opponents. Are we going to find out how good they are at the end of this, or is it too early in the season?
TW: They do have an easy game before those three. So they should be able to get at least one more win and then they have three top-10 teams. I think if they can win one of those games you're sitting there going, Utah's a real team. They host a couple, I believe, and then they go to Stanford. I think they host Oregon and Oregon State and go to Stanford. I think if they can win one of those games at home you'd have to say that they are a top four Pac-12 team and a legitimate NCAA tourney team.
DF: Mike, what do you think's turned that program around? Elaine Elliott did a lot of good things but had some tough years after that. And jumping into the Pac-12, where there's a bunch of ranked teams, is not easy.
MS: Lynne Roberts has done a great job. It's all about getting players and she's kind of followed the idea that Elaine Elliott had of getting these Canadian players. She's got a few people from Canada and she's also got some players from California and Las Vegas. So if you get good players — and she found that player from South Dakota that was kind of a diamond in the rough, so that's the main thing. But like you guys were talking about, we'll find out how real this is. They're obviously better than they have been, but they could easily lose all three of those games to top-10 teams. And there's a couple other teams that are very tough. So Utah could easily lose six or seven Pac-12 games, but even if they do that, if they don't lose the games they should win, they should still make it to the NCAAs.
DF: Compared to the men, the conference is brutal, it's tough, and you don't necessarily need to finish in the top two to make a statement. Trent, do you agree with Mike? Six or seven losses and they can still get in the NCAA Tournament just because of the strength of the conference?
TW: Yeah, especially if they're competitive in those losses because I know selection committees look at that. If they're blown out maybe not, but if they're competitive against the elite teams I think they could be in.
MS: Biggest thing with them is they've lost these players to injuries. Season-ending injury to their second top scorer, and then they had another recent injury and I don't know how long she's out, but they're only down to seven or eight players. That can hurt a lot in the Pac-12 with just the depth factor. And so as good as they are, if they're missing two of their top players it's going to be tough to finish high in the league.
DF: It's a great story up on the hill, what they're doing so far and it's obviously a fun team to watch. This has been a tough week up on the hill, with the loss of Bruce Woodbury, longtime sports information director and community relations guy. Mike, you knew him probably as well as anybody. Sad to see, but he's had so many health issues over the last few years that it's that old cliché that maybe it was a blessing.
MS: It's sad. It wasn't a surprise, he's kind of been in bad shape last year. I worked for him for three years up at the U. in the sports information office. And so I was pretty close to him. And then of course, I traveled with the Utes throughout the '80s and the '90s and so I must have gone on dozens and dozens of road trips with him, out to dinner at various places. Yeah, Woody was just a terrific guy and everybody liked Woody, that's the thing about him. It was just extremely sad to see that happen because, you know, he was just such a great guy.
DF: He is and he's got a great wife, Nancy. She'd bring him to the games the last year or so. And she was just always there with him. Great family and I think a lot of us can trace our careers getting a boost from Woody. I recall, working back at the Daily Chronicle back in the day, and when you take the Chronicle people on a football trip or two every year, and those were really neat because on Friday nights before the game Woody used to get all the media together to go out to eat. Being a young punk from the Chronicle and being able to sit down with John Mooney and Dick Rosetta and Brad Rock and guys like that, it was just incredible. And you got to know those guys and then they'd see something in the Chronicle and whether it was true or not, they'd say, hey I liked your story, and you got to know them. I think we have a lot have fond memories of Woody; just a really super nice guy.
MS: You mentioned those dinners — he had this thing where he'd always order and he'd always look over after the orders came and say, man I wish I would have got that. He always second-guessed himself.
DF: How about the arguments with Bill Marcroft, right? They'd share ribs or something he'd say, well you had 11 and I had nine so you're gonna pay $26.50 and I'm gonna pay $18.75.
MS: And it's kind of gone away now. I don't think the SIDs, it's been years since they've gone out with us to dinner. Woody was a terrific guy.
DF: Woody's viewing and funeral are later this week and I expect to see a lot of familiar faces. It's interesting to hear on the radio Chris Hill and everybody. I think Chris Hill said when you think of Woody, you smile. And that's how we all remember him and we all have a million funny stories about him that'll get shared over the years, but he left quite a legacy. Like you said Mike, he's just a good man and that was the best way to describe him.
Let's move on to our Utah by 5 segment. This week we caught up with former Utah guard Jimmy Soto who does color commentary for the radio and we talked about a variety of topics so we'll play that for you now.
We're joined on our Utah by 5 segment by Jimmy Soto. Jimmy, former Ute and now you're calling the games on the radio. What do you like better?
Jimmy Soto: That's not even close. I like to play. I didn't like to practice but I like to play. But it's been a lot of fun. I've enjoyed this. It's my 10th season actually, it goes by so fast, just like playing. I enjoy it. It allows me to, you know, be around the game still a little bit. I don't have to be a coach so you don't go home with the wins and the losses, turnovers, and the missed blockouts and that sort of thing, but still passionate about the team and it's fun to be around the guys and see them grow and develop while they're here. So it's been a lot of fun.
DF: Tell us what are you doing these days?
JS: Yeah, so my official title is assistant athletic director for major gifts, fundraising for all the sports, all department, annual funds, scholarships, facilities. We've had a lot of progress facility-wise, since they joined the Pac-12, so it's been a lot of fun to see the way the department has grown and the facilities and the athletes and things that we're able to provide for them now. And I'm also the sport administrator for our baseball program and golf program so I work with those two coaches on a regular basis, with academics with the athletes, student welfare, facilities, their needs, their budgets, that sort of thing. I've been pretty fortunate to have a playing career here at Utah and then also able to circle back and be involved with the department on a daily basis.
DF: So it's been what, 25 years since you played? Does it seem like that?
JS: You say every time you see me it's kind of weird seeing me with gray hair so yeah it's pretty crazy to think that it's gone by that fast. My last game was in the spring of '93 and here we are almost in the spring of 2019. Twenty-six years since I played here at Utah and a lot of fun memories and enjoyed my time here.
DF: Everybody who played for Rick Majerus has a bunch of Rick Majerus stories. Is there one that's clean enough to go on our podcast that you can remember?
JS: Oh man, I tried to have a short-term memory with Rick. There were a lot of days when you couldn't wait to get out of there. But he had his moments obviously, at practice. You hear a lot of stories, but at the same time there were a lot of things that he did outside the gym, in the community, and with friends and family, as far as helping people out that maybe didn't get as much recognition as his tirades. It was definitely tough and challenging playing for Rick, but he got the best out of everybody. He really understood how to put pieces together, put guys in positions to be most successful based on their abilities and how they can help the program. So that was a great learning experience with all that.
DF: You've had a chance to watch this year's team. They've been struggling around .500 thus far. Are you seeing development? You have the best seat in the house for most games, what are you seeing out of this team?
JS: I think it's just taking some time. We've had so many new faces, a lot of young guys that have a lot to learn. When you come from high school to the next level. And I think it's changed a lot where there's maybe not as much teaching and as much coaching, but more playing and competition. So a lot for these guys to learn and you're seeing them start to progress now. They're starting to play again, not think so much. You can see they're gaining a little more confidence, a lot more chemistry, guys are starting to, you know, understand their roles and see if we can keep the momentum going. But I think we have a really good core group of young players that if they continue to develop we should be pretty solid down the road.
DF: Just a reminder the pro football is coming to Rice-Eccles Stadium and it's coming soon. Next month, the Salt Lake Stallions take the field. You can get season tickets by calling 1-833-AAF-2019 or go to their website, SaltLakeStallions.com. You guys going to go up and catch a game?
MS: It's gonna be interesting, you know, because it's a different time of year that people aren't used to watching football. Depends on the weather and also basketball, how good that's going. But yeah, it'll be fun to see familiar faces for sure.
DF: And having Dennis Erickson come back to coach is great and I think everybody who worked with him here liked him. Trent, you know about Dennis Erickson well from living in Florida. He won a couple national championships down there in his day.
Any final words? How about the Red Rocks?
TW: They are making a program history, which is crazy considering the history of that program. They've had the best start ever in Utah gymnastics history. I have a story coming out later this week about one of the gymnasts who has been responsible for it, aside from MyKayla Skinner. And it's Macey Roberts. She's a transfer who was at Maryland to start her career, but she's having the best year of her gymnastics career.
DF: Another good reason to transfer to Utah. And then talking about Ute football a little bit, I had a chance to catch up with Coach Kyle Whittingham a little bit on the phone yesterday. We were talking about the loss of Woody and he said that recruiting was going gangbusters and they were happy with the way things are going. Like every coach in America.
MS: We got another quarterback, right? More controversy for next year.
DF: He's got the transfer rule. But he and Jason Shelley — Cameron Rising. Looks like a good one, you know, looks like he's in that mold of Jack Tuttle and a Southern California guy, so that'll be interesting to see.
MS: Two more months is all before we've got spring ball.
DF: Maybe it's because I want a vacation that time of year. But the guys work hard and I appreciate all that, it just really amazes me that you get everything fired up and then you turn it down. It's like revving the engine of your new car and then turning it off and going back inside. And six months later, then you're going to drive it. I understand, it's just one of those interesting things to cover because every year there's always these heroes that come out of spring ball and they never take the field and you never hear their name again. It's a quandary, but we do it anyway.
The Utah lacrosse program, as we heard from Coach Brian Holman, they're gonna have their inaugural game at Rice-Eccles Stadium on Feb. 1. It's big deal, isn't it?
TW: Yeah, lacrosse is very much an eastern United States sport. So the fact that Utah has an NCAA team is kind of a big deal.
DF: Talking about East Coast, Vermont will be the opponent. Mike, did you get your season tickets yet?
MS: I haven't yet. I'm not a big lacrosse guy. And I don't know a lot about it. But I do know a lot of my friends have kids that have played lacrosse, especially in California. And it's a huge deal in certain places, especially back East like you say. But it's kind of the up-and-coming sport, and maybe in another 20 or 30 years it'll be a major sport, we don't know. But for now, it's great that they get the program going and we'll see what see what happens.
DF: One of the neat things in this era where programs are disappearing because of funding it's nice to see a program actually get started. Fans can be at the historic game on Feb. 1, playing at Rice-Eccles Stadium. That's kind of a big venue to start this off. And so it should be a lot of fun. Just a reminder again for the Salt Lake Stallions. Their season's coming up. Go to their website, saltlakestallions.com.