When evangelical podcaster Allie Beth Stuckey introduced her latest guest, Jacob Hansen, the Latter-day Saint apologist behind the YouTube channel “Thoughtful Faith,” she framed their conversation as a “debate” about their theological differences.
But Stuckey expressed curiosity, too. She said her goal was to clarify the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and “what they actually believe.”
Although Stuckey had previously said she does not consider Latter-day Saints to be Christians and has hosted former members of the church on her podcast, this time, she wanted to invite Hansen — a practicing Latter-day Saint — to ask him directly about the faith’s beliefs.
“I thought that you’d be a really good advocate for what you believe,” she told Hansen.
Stuckey, who lives in Texas, has built a loyal following of suburban conservative women, encouraging them to speak out in their communities against abortion, gay relationships and gender identity and push back against what they see as progressive culture’s distortion of God-given teachings. Her podcast, “Relatable,” hosted by Glenn Beck’s Blaze Media, has over 735,000 subscribers on YouTube.
Despite the two podcasters’ faith differences, Stuckey praised Hansen’s willingness to join her: “Not everyone of any background, of any faith, is really willing to do that.”
What followed was a wide-ranging conversation that at times took on the tone of a cross-examination rather than a dialogue.
Stuckey grilled Hansen on questions about the nature of God, priesthood authority, who gets to go to heaven, and whether Latter-day Saints and evangelicals even believe in the same Jesus.
When Stuckey expressed that she felt Latter-day Saint requirements like specific ordinances and priesthood authority, in her view, undermine the idea that faith in Christ alone is sufficient for reconciliation with God, Hansen made his pitch: “You’re welcome to come and get baptized.”
What exactly had to be restored?
Stuckey started out with clarifying what actually had to be restored at the founding of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that makes it distinct from other religions. In the 19th century, both Catholic and Protestant faiths had already been preaching the gospel, she said. So what was different?
Hansen explained that “priesthood authority” and the “fullness of the priesthood” was missing. What also needed to be restored, Hansen added, was the proper understanding of “who God was and who man was in relationship to God.”
A vibrant point of debate between the two podcasters revolved around the concept of “fullness of the gospel,” and whether that “fullness” can be achieved by any other way outside the Church of Jesus Christ.
“Is there any other sect out there that has the priesthood ordinance?” Stuckey asked. In Stuckey’s belief, the person’s Christian faith and obedience could accomplish that fullness.
“The fullness of the priesthood? No,” Hansen responded.
Stuckey kept at it: Do Baptists, Presbyterians or Catholics have anything like that?
Those churches broke away from the Roman Catholic Church, Hansen explained, and were essentially organized by men.
In Hansen’s view, the Catholic and Orthodox churches are the “remnants of the original church,” because the “apostolic authority” wasn’t passed on to these traditions. He clarified that while baptism was one requirement for salvation, the Latter-day Saint faith also requires the person to accept the “fullness of the priesthood authority.”
Hansen also straightened the record on the “are Mormons Christians?” debate.
“We would consider ourselves Christians,” Hansen told Stuckey, “but we will not consider ourselves Creedal Christians.”
The Latter-day Saints largely agree with the Apostles’ Creed, he added, and much of the Nicene Creed, except on how the Father and the Son relate to each other in their nature. In his faith’s theology, God and men were the same “species,” he said.
What about the Trinity?
The two believers grappled with how they defined the unity of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Stuckey noted that she believed in “three persons and one being.”
Hansen described the Latter-day Saint belief as three separate persons “who share one nature — the fullness of the divine nature.” Hansen took issue with the word “being.”
“I have a hard time with that because it seems to me that what makes you your own person is to have your own being,” he said. “I am very open to being convinced of the trinitarian formulation of God. I genuinely don’t know what people even mean when they say that you have two persons that share the same being.”
“We do believe in three persons, one God,” Stuckey said.
“In what sense can three persons be one?” Hansen asked. “I just don’t understand that.”
The Trinity is mysterious, Stuckey conceded, almost unsuitable for any analogy to explain it.
Hansen went on to share what he described as the most “real radical Latter-day Saint doctrine” — that God’s children carry his spark and have the potential to become gods. He pointed to the term “joint heirs with Jesus Christ” in the Bible to back up the claim. Hansen came equipped with quotes from the early church priests: Athanasius of Alexandria, Cyprian of Carthage, Irenaeus.
Stuckey was skeptical. She was on board with being “co-heirs” with Christ, but separated the idea of being heirs from becoming gods. “Because from the very beginning, God has declared that he is one, that there is no one like him,” she said.
More exchanges from the interview
- Hansen described the Bible as a “henotheistic” text, a view where one god is treated as supreme or primarily worshipped, while accepting that other gods exist. This led Stuckey to ask: “So your argument is that you agree with the Muslims that Christianity is not really monotheistic?” Hansen wasn’t quite on board with that interpretation, but noted that calling Christianity “hard monotheistic metaphysically is a very difficult claim to justify.” “If you want to say that you have three persons who are fully divine beings that all have the divine nature, you have three things, not one thing,” Hansen said.
- Stuckey argued that true prophets in scripture never give false prophecies even though personally they’re imperfect. Hansen pushed back, pointing to examples like Ezekiel’s prophecy about Tyre, Jesus’ statements in Matthew 24 and Peter’s misunderstandings. He suggested that sometimes there are “contingencies in prophecy,” like Jonah’s warning to Nineveh, which didn’t come to pass because the people repented. The two agreed that God’s nature of love is unchanging. “It’s a difference in interpretation,” Hansen said.
- Finally, Stuckey wanted to know how Hansen saw the “good news” of the gospel. We live in a broken world, he said, and Christ’s atonement and Easter morning represented hope — the ultimate “good news.” Stuckey echoed the point about hope, but expressed disappointment about being excluded. “In your belief system, I don’t have an eternity.” People can have as much communion with God as they’re willing to accept, Hansen responded. Looking directly into the camera, Stuckey delivered the final word to her audience. “Here is what I would say, which I believe is better news — that by grace you have been saved through faith and this is not your own doing.”
- Hansen also posted a review of his interview with Stuckey on his own YouTube channel.