Elder Clark G. Gilbert was called as the newest member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on Feb. 11.
Elder Gilbert’s service and expertise in academia, business and media — as well as his roles as commissioner of the Church Educational System and president of BYU-Idaho and BYU-Pathway — have prepared him for his new calling.
On this episode of “Deseret Voices,” host Jane Clayson Johnson asks Elder Gilbert about his apostolic call, polarization in the world, the recent criticism he has received from some corners of the media and what his message is to those who don’t feel like they belong in the faith.
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Transcript
Note: Transcript edited by Steven Watkins
Jane Clayson Johnson: Elder Gilbert, thank you so much for being with us today. Start by telling us how this apostolic call was extended to you.
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: Yeah, it really for me, the call came on a Wednesday, but the day before, on a Tuesday, we were with President Oaks down at BYU. He was speaking to the world. And it was such a sacred occasion. And I’d worked with him closely on this event, and he was really speaking to young people about faith. And I could tell the whole day he had something he wanted to say to me, and he kept holding back. But I felt a little bit of a premonition, which is a strange thing to say, and I just kept it to myself. I didn’t even say anything to my wife because it just seemed so preposterous.
And then the next day, after having had those feelings all day, we had the Church Board of Education meeting. And at the end of the meeting, President Oaks said, “Brother Gilbert, will you follow me to my office?” And I thought he was going to just give me — he gives me assignments once in a while, things he wants me to research or work on. And he walked over some papers and I thought, OK, I must not have felt those feelings yesterday. He’s sitting down to give me some research project, and then he just went right into the invitation. “We’d like to call you to serve as the next apostle.”
And it was overwhelming. Just kind of set me back, even though the Lord prepared me to have feelings the day before, to hear him say those words. And then he gave me counsel on the calling. The next day he would set me apart and ordain me with all of the Twelve. And did formal training on the calling with everyone there. But in that moment of the call, he just began to share his witness of the need to testify to the name of Christ in all the world. And it was a sacred moment. And he said I could call my wife. And I walked out in the church parking lot, and I didn’t want to go back to my office. So I just got in my car, closed the doors, and just sat there and called Christine and told her I would be home as soon as I could. And we got together and we had girls there and things going on at home, but we closed the door to our room and we just knelt down and poured out our souls and thanked the Lord for this assignment and prayed for help.
Jane Clayson Johnson: And what has been the predominant feeling?
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: You know, there’s this marvelous painting that’s in the Louvre of Peter and John running to the tomb of the resurrected Lord. And a lot of analysts say that they have fear and trepidation. You can see that, but I also see joy in them. And for me, it’s been the most unusual blend of these two feelings of being overwhelmed and being fearful and feeling nervous, and this joy that the Lord is in charge and he will lift me and the keys will be bigger than the person.
Jane Clayson Johnson: You were called to the apostleship following the passing of President Jeffrey R. Holland, and I vividly remember him saying how humbling that calling was, how deeply humbled he was. I wonder what his life and his ministry as an apostle have taught you about how you want to approach this role.
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: You know, I had an experience with him. He was over church education. I was serving as a new commissioner. He’d been an apostle for over 30 years. You would think he knew his role and all that it entailed. And he was studying a little booklet that looked like it was hand-printed off a computer with a little wrapper around it. And we were sitting on the plane and I just said, “President Holland, what are you studying?” And here he was, 30 years into his calling. He said, “Clark, as apostles, we’re called to be a witness to the name of Christ in all the world.”
And I’ve started a study of the names of Christ and what they mean and what they teach us, and felt like he knew so much. And I mean this, he was such a scriptural master. Yet there he was this late into his ministry, still studying and trying to understand the nature of his calling. And for me, that’s overwhelming. As I come into Year 1, Week 1, and think about this giant of a man reading and studying the names of the Savior so he could fulfill the calling he had.
Jane Clayson Johnson: You come to this calling after significant leadership experience in business, in media, in higher education, including at the Deseret News, at BYU. You’ve had to make many consequential and sometimes difficult and unpopular decisions. Sort of an agent for change, if you will. How do you see those earlier experiences shaping the kind of apostle that you hope to be?
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: I had always fancied myself as an innovator and a scholar of entrepreneurship. That’s what I studied for years at the Harvard Business School. And I got to BYU-Idaho, and I realized I really didn’t know a lot. The formative impact, I’ve never worked in a more innovative institution than my time at BYU-Idaho. There was a rethinking of the way education was done. There was the creation of BYU-Pathway, and they were all done in a very different way.
I’ve tried to help academic journalists who interview us about what’s going on and all the innovation in the Church Educational System, and I’ve tried to say it’s not because I’m innovative or some of our faculty are innovative, the arc of innovation comes from my religious mission, and I really had to learn. I drew on — the Lord uses our secular training. He absolutely uses it. But I had to learn to do it in the Lord’s way. And it was hard. And there were times where, you know, there were, you know, “Can we really do this? Is this the right thing?” You know, criticism from people who would do it in a very different way. And I had to just learn to trust the Lord and that we would innovate in the Lord’s way and just be true to those convictions.
Jane Clayson Johnson: I have been reading some of the national news coverage after your calling as an apostle this week. Some of it referred to you as a controversial figure. A culture warrior, a high-profile defender of doctrinal orthodoxy. One historian suggested that your appointment signals a more dogmatic direction for the church. I wonder if you could respond to that.
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: You know, I think some of those criticisms really come from the fact that we had to do really hard things and often things that were very different than maybe those industries would do. I led a media organization. I led academic organizations. Those tend to be settings where the dominant framework is very much a secular framework. And so to have the audacity to say the dominant framework for us would be the gospel of Jesus Christ. I think that was really hard for a lot of people. And one of the blessings of the Restoration is that it brings with it moral clarity.
And I remember, I have a book, Jane, sitting on my desk because it’s been there the whole time I’ve been the commissioner called “The Dying of the Light.” And it’s the decoupling of higher ed from its religious moorings. And it goes through how all of these schools that started out as religious lost their way. And one of the things we really knew we could never let happen in the Church Educational System, especially at BYU, was to walk away from our religious mission. And it’s been amazing to watch what’s happening at BYU.
Jane Clayson Johnson: And yet some critics there say that during your leadership in church education, some of the strict policies that were pushing out dissenting views were hard for many people. How do you hold those two responsibilities that you’re talking about, of innovating and change, defending truth, and also holding that Christlike compassion?
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: It is so hard. I think it will be one of the great tests of disciples in the last days, standing for truth with love. And if we aren’t careful, we’ll equivocate on truth because we feel pressure. But also if we are following the Savior, we’ll do it in a way that’s combative and not with love for others. And that the Savior always, always forgave. He had an infinite capacity to forgive. But he never once said, “Because I love you, you’re free from following my commandments.” And, you know, we’re tasked with that same balance, and even at BYU, here’s just a couple wonderful things. So we had slipped, BYU had slipped, and there were a lot of pressures for BYU to be just like the world. People would say, “Why do we have these religious standards when we do all these things?”
And I remember I was talking to President Holland, and he was bemoaning that he could feel this drift happening to the university. And he’s like, “What have they done with our school that we love so much?” And I felt awkward. I wasn’t even the commissioner yet. And I felt like I needed to defend them. And I said, “Well, President Holland, you know, we have the honor code, we have devotionals, we have religion classes, we have the academic freedom policy.” And I said, “They’re like bumper lanes protecting us from bowling into the gutter.” And he didn’t even let me finish. And he said, “That’s very different than bowling for a strike.” And he said, “We need to bowl for a strike at BYU.”
And just a couple phenomenal things have happened at that university in the last five years. We started out five years ago with 75% of our students. We do an exit survey when the students leave. One of the questions is, “Did you grow closer to Jesus Christ in your time at BYU?” Well, five years ago, that was at 75%, much lower than the rest of our institutions. Well, the next year it climbed to 77%, from the year after that to 83. Just last year, it was 87%. And there’s real momentum there. What’s remarkable, though, is the faculty — they wanted this. They live in the same pressures that we feel. And they wanted to stand up and be distinct and different. And with all of that change, over 90% of our faculty report high satisfaction and support as faculty at that university, higher than almost every other secular comparison. So we’ve been able to drive this change. But because the faculty, for the most part, wanted — and I’m sure there are a few who are like, “Well, I wanted this to be more like University of Pennsylvania or Cal Berkeley or some other school.” But the majority came to BYU because they loved its mission and they wanted to be different. And when you have 90% of the faculty expressing satisfaction, that’s an amazing data point.
And by the way, we had to do this. You know, I’m so pleased that they’re happy with the progress. The students were. Record number of applicants again this year to BYU. Students are thrilled. I get letters from parents. “Thank you. This is the place I wanted my son to be. Thank you for letting it be different.” And I love all of those. But our mark was set by the Lord and his prophets, and we’ve stayed true to that. And sometimes that isn’t always popular. But it was always, in the end, easy for me to come back to that because there’s clarity in setting your mark to those targets.
Jane Clayson Johnson: And for those critics, what do you want them to know about your heart and your mission now in this particular moment?
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: Oh, I hope they will see that, you know, we always tried to be clear and transparent with where we’re going. And I hope they’ll see the ministerial care I have for people who struggle. And there are hard things happening in the world. And there are great things happening in the world. And I think one of the responsibilities we have in the Twelve is to minister to those who are struggling while holding up the light and truth of the gospel for all to be pointed in the right direction. And I’ll try to strike that balance always. And God loves his children so much, and he cares for them. But one of the misconceptions in these latter days is that moving away from light, moving away from truth, will lead to happiness. And that isn’t true. And so, if you really love someone who’s struggling, you’ll have empathy, care, and concern, but you’ll also point them back to the words of the Lord — it’s God who loves them more than we do.
I remember once I was in the Boston temple, and I was with all of these inner-city youth that I served there, and I thought I knew them so well. And I was in the temple praying about them one at a time, going through Jonathan and Jesse and Junior Gomez and my West African youth. And I’m just naming them at a certain point in that temple service, I sort of think, “I know these youth really well. I really know them.” And I heard the Lord come back to me and say, “Oh, Clark, I’ve known them long before you showed up. But I’ll be in their life long after you leave. And if you want to bless them, you need to figure out what I’m already trying to do in their lives.” And I thought, that’s our call is to point people to the Savior. And the Savior wants them to find truth and light in their lives, and that will lead to greater happiness.
Jane Clayson Johnson: We are living in a time of deep polarization, even within the church. And there are many sincere people on both sides who believe that they are defending the tenets of the faith. I’m curious what kind of spiritual culture you hope will characterize the church in these divisive times.
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: They are divisive, and we’ve received such good counsel recently to be peacemakers. And it’s hard. It’s hard when someone’s angry, when someone uses your words for their political agenda one way or the other. I often think of C.S. Lewis’ “Screwtape Letters,” and I think it’s the seventh letter. Wormwood writes a letter to Screwtape and says, “I’m trying to corrupt this person. We’re tempting him. And he wants to join a political party. Should I push him to the Patriot Party?” which I don’t know a lot about 1950s British politics, but I imagine it was the conservative end of their political culture. “Or should I push him to the Peace Party?” And he’s like, “The Patriot Party has a lot of believers, but the Peace Party, some of them are really authentic and true to what they believe. And, you know, which one should I put him to?” And Screwtape says, “Have you not listened to anything I’ve told you?” Remember, these are two devils tempting the human subject. And he says, “It doesn’t matter which party, as long as their political view becomes primary and their religion becomes secondary, we have won our man.”
And I think in this polarizing time, we need to point people to the Savior first, to his prophet second. And yes, we have a church that says we should be civically engaged, but we need to watch out for the risk and the common tendency. I know we both felt that from friends on both sides of issues who want to co-opt the church into their given political agenda, and we say no, Christ himself and his prophets stated above that, and that’s where we need to be pointing our members to.
Jane Clayson Johnson: You are 55 years old. You are the youngest apostle to be called to this position in more than two decades. Elder Bednar, I believe, was 52 when he was called in 2004. How does this season of your young life shape the way you will approach the work ahead? And I’m curious, especially with the rising generation.
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: Yeah, we have young children still in the home. I do have one granddaughter. It was so rewarding this past week that she was in town, just coincidentally, or by the tender mercies of the Lord, they were visiting, and I got to hold her and be with her all weekend. And it just grounded me in that responsibility. I think President Packer once said to me when I was running the church media companies, and he asked me, “What time are you going to bed at night?” And I said, “Well, about 1:30 or 2 most nights.” He said something that just set me back. He said, “Oh, you think this all depends on you, don’t you? You don’t trust the Lord?” And then he gave me a curfew, and he said, “Clark, you will be in this role for a season, but you’ll be a husband and a father for eternity.”
And, you know, we gathered our children around this week, and it puts them in the spotlight, and it puts pressures on them, and we just wanted them to know, Christine and I will always take our parental responsibilities as a primary focus. Now, that said, we have a calling to the whole world, and our service has been given to the church. And I remember President Oaks once we were replacing the president at BYU-Hawaii, and he heard all of the presidents talking about when we’d be released. President Oaks said, “Well, brethren, let’s just say your release is a little different than our release.” And now that I have that same responsibility, it is very real. And I’m glad you asked about the rising generation. They are the future of the church. President Holland used to say we’re one generation away from not having a body of followers. And yet this young generation are amazing.
Jane Clayson Johnson: Well, you have talked about that. You talked about how there’s a remarkable increase in attendance in the institute among young people in the church. But more broadly, there is research that suggests that religion feels less relevant to these younger kids, to this younger generation. So, what message do you offer to young people about staying with faith, about coming to faith?
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: You know, the data you reference comes from the Pew Research study on disaffiliation with the referred office, the religious “nones,” where they checked: “I’m Catholic, I’m Jewish, I’m LDS, I’m none.” And that none category has been growing and growing. A couple of things, though, are in that data that I think are relevant for our church, but for all people of faith. First of all, the “nones” are not happy, you know, when they disaffiliation from faith, their satisfaction in life, their sense of meaning and direction goes down. They don’t find joy without faith in their lives.
The second remarkable thing in that data is one of the authors of that study said to me, “Clark, guess which religious affiliation has the lowest retention rate?” I guessed a few religions, hoping it wasn’t us. And he said, “It’s the religious nones because they disaffiliate and they aren’t happy, and they find opportunities to reaffiliate many of them into other faiths and other religions.” And they said in your faith, they reaffiliate with your faith. And that’s, I think, what we see happening. And I wouldn’t want to ever trivialize — there are so many who struggle.
Jane Clayson Johnson: And who are leaving the faith.
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: And who are leaving the faith. But seminary attendance is increasing — not just total numbers, but percentages. Institute is increasing. Even here in Utah, some people say, “Oh, it’s all that growth in Africa.” And that is true. I mean, what’s happening in Africa just takes your breath away. But right here in the state of Utah, all but two institutes grew last, in fact, the last two years in a row. The University of Utah Institute, for example, had had a real dip in enrollment. But for the last four years, it’s had this resurgence. And I think what’s happening is our youth, they’re not home. You know, they feel these pressures. And by the way, they live with social media and all kinds of things that create anxiety and difficulty. They, you know, have unprecedented mental health challenges. I mean, they are suffering. The U.S. surgeon general called it an epidemic of loneliness with our young adults. But I think some of them have tried other ways where they’ve seen friends try to go away from the gospel, and they’re saying, “Hey, that doesn’t work.”
Jane Clayson Johnson: So what’s your message? How are you attracting even more?
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: Yeah, I think President Oaks talked this week. I mean, it was so amazing for me to watch that. It was the 50th anniversary of this generational message from President Kimball 50 years ago when President Oaks was the president of BYU. And it was supposed to be this capstone to that, and he was prepared for it. I prepped things to get him ready for it. And he came to me and he said, “Clark, when we made that assignment, I was not the prophet. And the Lord wants me to speak to the whole church.”
And then he gave four ways to reanchor your faith, even when you struggle. And when he spoke, I knew that was God’s message through his prophet to the world. And his counsel was powerful. First is, re-anchor in Jesus Christ. Young people who struggle, anyone who struggles, often their path back to faith starts through the Savior. Like, get to know him, learn of him, feel of him. That’s the place to start. You know, the second thing is to be humble. And, you know, I remember when I was a young adult, I thought, “Oh, I’m the only person who’s ever thought of hard questions in my life.” And I remember, you know, coming at my dad with these questions I thought would stump him. He’s so smart and so faithful. But I knew I could stump him. And, you know, I think I asked him, “Dad, bad things happen to good people. How are you going to answer that?” You know, and President Oaks gave this counsel, just be a little humble in your approach to your faith. He said, “Go to trusted sources, people you can rely on.” The last one he said is be patient.
Our young adults, they struggle. It’s hard. They have moments they don’t think they can make it. They don’t feel like they fit. But the gospel of Jesus Christ is a gospel of hope and joy and belonging, and it’s there. Just be patient, and it will come. And I think that last piece of advice from the prophet was so poignant. And, you know, I think that is the message for the whole church, but especially for young adults who are struggling.
Jane Clayson Johnson: You mentioned the growth of the church. The church is now more international than ever before. More members live outside the United States than in it. How do you envision the continued growth of a global church, especially in Africa, Latin America, Asia, and I wonder about the financial distributions and the resources that you’re going to need to continue to grow.
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: Yeah, one of the blessings of my time at BYU-Pathway is really to feel the international strength of the church. And I remember we used to track the percentage of students who are domestic and international. And then I remember the year those lines crossed. And now we track it as the percentage who are domestic, international and African. And, you know, it’s about a third, a third, a third. And we are a worldwide church. And boy, the strength of those international Saints, I think we will learn a lot from them back here in the United States. Their faith, their conviction, their quiet humility. And, you know, we are going to increasingly be global, but we have to stay strong and vibrant here in the state of Utah and in the United States. And we will and are, but we will be a global church. And look, God loves his children. He doesn’t love American children. He loves children all over the world. He loves all of us.
And I remember in the early years in BYU-Pathway, I was still teaching at the Harvard Business School. Kim Clark had left to go to BYU-Idaho, and he asked me, “What could you do if you came to work at BYU-Idaho?” And I was up for tenure at Harvard. I was looking at offers from other schools, and I said, “Well, I bet we could really reach the inner city church through BYU-Idaho.” And he said, “Oh, yeah, that will be an important blessing of BYU-Idaho.” He looked at me and he said, “But the problem is much bigger.” And he said, “Clark, there are Primary children all across the earth who are making covenants and keeping covenants. And one of the ways the Lord will bless them is through education.” And that is a microcosm of the whole church and what’s happening.
Jane Clayson Johnson: Yes. And I do think it’s a challenge to honor the cultural diversity within these various nations, while bringing them into the fold.
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: I, we were with President Oaks right after he was called as the prophet, and he talked about revelation. And he described how he had watched a patriarch who served on a U.S. reservation and how the patriarch would see his blessings in a story form and how different that was than anything he would do. And he talked about an Area Seventy in Africa who would feel it; he could just feel revelation. And President Oaks said, “I see revelation in the chalkboard of my mind.” Of course, an old law school professor. And I remember thinking, the Lord speaks to us in our own unique ways. And that’s different across cultures all over the world.
Jane Clayson Johnson: You know, as you talk here, I think about knowing you for a very long time, 25 years ago, back in Boston, and I’ve sort of watched you over many years. I’m curious, what you feel is your point of growth in this very sacred moment?
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: You know, I remember when we were asked to go to BYU-Idaho, and we weren’t asked by the church. We were asked by Elder Kim B. Clark. We had to pray about it, get our own answer. It was non-intuitive. And I remember feeling frustrated. And I said to my wife one night, “I feel like the rich young ruler, but I know how the parable ends. So we’re going to go.” But I didn’t have a good attitude. I didn’t want to leave Harvard. I was excited for other opportunities. I had an opportunity to go to BYU, and I was doing the right thing, but I didn’t have the right heart. And I had said that to her on a Saturday night. And the next morning, one of the bishops in our stake got up and bore his testimony at a stake priesthood meeting. He’s the janitor or the grounds director for the Boston temple. And he said, “I wish everyone could come in through the grounds crew’s entrance there, because Heinrich Hofmann’s painting of the rich young ruler was there.” You know, I was just telling this story to my wife, and he said, “And the young ruler is thinking of all the things he’s giving up, and he’s not looking to the things the Savior’s pointing him to. And whenever we are asked to do something and give something up for the Lord, he always points us to something better.” And I just wept.
And I’d love to say, Jane, I came to Rexburg with just joyful rejoicing, but I had to learn to see the Lord’s path long before it was — it was decoupled from any other future responsibility — and I had to learn to trust him when it wasn’t obvious. We had been there a few years and our home burned to the ground. And I remember praying, “Lord, we already gave up our career, now you’re taking our house?” And I feel like the Lord just stripped down the weaker parts of me. And he kept doing that over the years. And I had to learn and learn and learn. And that’s going to happen now. I mean, we don’t have a doctrine of prophetic infallibility. There’s one perfect person — that’s the Savior, Jesus Christ. God calls willing and consecrated people to serve in his church. But he doesn’t call perfect people. He calls people who will listen to him and will do their best. And then he makes up the difference.
Jane Clayson Johnson: What do you say to anyone right now who feels alone? Who questions that there’s a place for them in this church, who may feel on the margins, they don’t feel like they belong. What is your message as the newest apostle to those people?
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: You know, your question there is the feeling that’s been on my heart as I prepare my first conference address as an apostle. That’s the question that’s in my heart right now. And for five years, I’ve traveled three out of four weekends to stakes all across the church. And every Saturday at 1 o’clock — and my template for the weekend schedule is 1 o’clock ministering visits. And I let the stake president choose who we need to see. And I always tell him, “Find someone who’s either working to come back or someone who just needs a little catalyst on their path back.” And week after week after week, I see it happening. People who struggle.
I met one woman in Ogden, left Utah as a young 20-year-old, moved to California. Terrible marriage, physical abuse. Left the church. Lost her faith. In her 50s, moved back here to Utah, and she started having feelings that the Lord wants me back. And she went to the Layton temple open house, parked her car there, and she just couldn’t get out of the car. She was paralyzed, didn’t feel worthy, didn’t feel like she should even be there. And she said in her heart, “Today, just being at the parking lot is going to have to be good enough.” And then the two sister missionaries knocked on her window and said, “Are you here for the temple open house? Can we take you through?” And she didn’t feel worthy and she didn’t feel like she belonged. But the invitation was there.
And to those who struggle, I just say to them, “We love you. We’re praying for you. God loves you. He wants you back. He’s beckoning you to come back. And I know it’s hard.” And we often talk about a sense of belonging in our buildings on Sunday and people who don’t feel like they belong. And I, when I do training with stakes, I say, “You know, there’s someone this week walking through those doors for whom it was really hard to be there, and you need to think of them in the way you treat them and invite them back.” And that’s what the Lord’s doing.
Jane Clayson Johnson: I’ll give you the last word if you could. You’re an apostle not just for the church but for the world. And what is your message to people within the church and those outside the church on this day, at the beginning of this journey?
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: I’ll start with those outside of the church. And, you know, in my responsibilities as the commissioner, I’ve worked with a lot of academic leaders in the nation. Those of faith-based universities and secular universities. And those friendships have been real and meaningful. And there’s been an outpouring of outreach. My friend, Rabbi Ari Berman, president of Yeshiva University. Shirley Hoogstra, the former head of the Christian Council of Colleges and Universities. Catholic, the presidents at Notre Dame. And they all understand this is a significant thing. They all don’t share our exact faith. And some of them don’t even have faith. But they knew this was significant.
And one of the things I’ve tried to encourage all of the faith-based leaders in our nation is to stand confidently for values, character, and, in our case, faith and being confident to stand up for those things in the public square. And to our friends of other faiths, I’d encourage them to be bold and strong and confident in helping our nation. Our nation needs faith. The world needs faith. If you look at every measure of human flourishing, how correlated it is to faith practice and faith engagement. The world needs us. The nation needs us to all be engaged.
To the members of the church, I just say, “What an amazing time to be part of the gospel of Jesus Christ.” It is a difficult time, but we knew it would be. Past and current prophets have told us before the Savior’s return that good would be called evil, evil would be called good. The world would be in commotion. You can see this from the Apostle Paul all the way back in 2 Timothy 3, when he was prophesying of the return of the Savior. Doctrine and Covenants 45, 1 Nephi, you know, where Nephi’s seeing right before the return of the Savior. And it would be a really hard time, but it would also be an amazing time. There would be more light and more darkness than ever in the history of the world. In some ways, that makes it really hard for us. We live in polarized, difficult times. In other ways, it makes the clarity of the gospel of Jesus Christ brighter than it’s ever been. And I would say to our members and to our nonmembers, “Look for the light of the Savior. He’s beckoning us all to come to him, and he will return to the earth. This is a critical time in the history of the earth.” As President Oaks says, “This is real. Let us be part of it. What a time to be part of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Thank you.”
Jane Clayson Johnson: Thank you.
Elder Clark G. Gilbert: Thank you.
Jane Clayson Johnson: Appreciate it.