They sit crowded in two small rooms in a Murray office complex, four people surrounded by file cabinets, computers, books and ideas.

They hope to change the United States of America. At the very least, change Utah and its local governments and school districts. Change them by pulling down "big government solutions." Change them by getting individuals to become more responsible, more free.The Sutherland Institute's four full-time employees celebrate the group's fourth birthday this August.

The free-market, small government think tank this week held one of its largest public seminars at the Salt Lake Hilton. Titled "Restoring Power to the People: A Conference on Federalism," its main speakers were Gov. Mike Leavitt and former U.S. Attorney Edwin Meese III. About 135 "paying" customers attended, a good turnout by institute standards, organizers said.

The institute is the new kid on the block, joining such other think tanks/advocacy groups as the Utah Foundation and the Utah Taxpayers Association, both of whom have been in Utah for more than 50 years. (See accompanying story.)

Institute President David F. Salisbury is a former associate professor at Florida State University who came to Utah when local developer/investor Gaylord K. Swim founded the institute in 1995.

In addressing Thursday's seminar, Swim said a political science graduate degree and a lifelong love and study of the U.S. Constitution led him to put together the institute several years ago.

"Thirty-seven other states have similar (free-market, less government) public policy groups," Salisbury said, sitting behind a large wooden table he uses as a desk. As a reporter hunches over in a broken chair in the cramped office, Salisbury apologizes, saying the institute has outgrown its small offices and will soon move into larger accommodations.

Yes, things are looking up for the Sutherland Institute.

Its first year Salisbury had a budget of only $25,000. Today, the 501(c)(3) tax-exempt group will raise and spend $250,000. The 10-year goal is to have a budget of $1 million and a staff of 12.

While a think tank, "we do want influence. In fact, we want to be the most influential public policy group in Utah. It may take us some time to get there. People will hear more from us in the future," Salisbury promises.

To keep its tax-exempt status, the group can't lobby. But it does put on seminars for public officials -- it has held three for state lawmakers since 1996 -- and will meet with legislators and local officials to talk about specific subjects. The institute puts out studies, opinion pieces and occasionally publishes a book.

The Deseret News has published a number of the institute's opinion pieces. The group's public papers, mission statement and other items can be found on the Web at www.sutherlandinstitute.org.

While labeled "conservative" by various people, Salisbury says that is not an accurate title.

"We aren't conservatives." In fact, if you study economic and government theories, Salisbury says, his group is more like the free-market liberals of the turn the century.

"We have nothing to do with many so-called conservative, moral issues. We take no stands on abortion, gambling, same-sex marriages. We deal mostly with economic issues where we find a broader range of support.

The group takes its name from Utahn George Sutherland, U.S. congressman, senator and U.S. Supreme Court justice who was one of the "Four Horsemen" who, on the high court, stood against President Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal government expansion in the 1930s.

"We don't take stands on specific bills (in the Legislature). We're not like the Utah Education Association or the Utah Taxpayers Association. But when an issue comes up, like growth did this year, then we do have a basic philosophy about how to go about it," Salisbury said.

That philosophy was clear when the institute put on a half-day seminar on growth for legislators and other interested parties during the 1999 Legislature's debate on the Quality Growth Act.

The seminar was packed, standing room only in the State Office Building Auditorium. But several attendees complained later that it was one-sided (against government participation in growth management), its speakers sarcastically chiding Envision Utah and other advocates of government action.

House Minority Whip Ralph Becker, D-Salt Lake, says the institute's growth program was "very cynical, a negative look at how government, even individuals" have no place in growth planning.

However, Becker, a planner by profession and co-sponsor of the Growth Act, says people who know the institute's work realize it approaches all issues from a "narrow, single-minded, almost missionary zeal viewpoint. And that's fine. It's their opinion and it does stimulate debate on public issues."

Salisbury admits that the institute missed the boat several years ago when the state adopted the CHIP program -- a federal child health care insurance program for poor kids.

Institute leaders didn't participate in that debate. "We were still young and relatively new" and didn't get involved, Salisbury said.

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"But CHIP is a mandate. We believe we have to revitalize voluntary work -- charities, churches and other private-sector areas" to handle such concerns. "Shriners Hospital is a perfect example of a charity helping sick children.

"Government has encroached too much into this area. If it retreated, charities would step in again, but government has crowded them out."

Salisbury says like most non-profit groups the institute doesn't reveal the names of its supporters. The institute counts heavily on foundations for its funding, although he said individual contributions are ever-increasing. National philanthropic groups, like the Atlas Economic Research Foundation and the Milton and Rose Friedman Foundation, give money. In Utah, the Bamberger Foundation has given grants.

Specific events do have publicized sponsors and often charge registration fees. The lunch provided lawmakers at the growth seminar was paid for by British Petroleum, whose banner hung in the auditorium. Thursday's federalism seminar was co-sponsored by the national Heritage Foundation, who paid for Meese's appearance, and 10 other local groups or businesses.

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