Editor’s note: First of a two-part series.
PROVO — How does it work that BYU basketball has two top recruiters that twice spurned the Cougars’ program as players? Now it’s their job to sell the BYU product.
Bellevue, Washington, native and current head coach Mark Pope signed with Washington 29 years ago and later transferred to Kentucky. Cougars assistant coach Chris Burgess, from Irvine, California, spurned BYU and signed with Duke 23 years ago. Then, when he decided to leave the Blue Devils, he transferred to Utah. That’s a combined four turndowns of BYU basketball by today’s two chief BYU recruiters.
How do they just stroll in and sell BYU? How is that going?
Actually, it’s a fascinating juxtaposition. And in truth, it is actually working very, very well, these outsiders, pulling the levers of BYU’s basketball recruiting engine.
Add in Nick Robinson, who signed with Stanford, and Cody Fueger, who has two degrees from the University of Utah, and you have the official Cabinet of Outsiders piloting BYU hoops.
“I don’t know how I can tie all that together, but I do know how to recruit to BYU right now,” said the guy who just signed Purdue transfer Matt Haarms going against Kentucky and recently signed legacy prospect Tanner Toolson, Mr. Washington Basketball out of Vancouver, Washington.
In fairness to this distinction, you’d have to go back a long, long way to find a former BYU basketball player or graduate who became the Cougars head basketball coach. Like half a century.
Here’s the lineup: Dave Rose (Houston), Steve Cleveland (Fresno College, Cal-Irvine), Tony Ingle (Dalton Junior College, Huntington College), Roger Reid (College of Eastern Utah, Weber State), Ladell Andersen (Utah State), Frank Arnold (Idaho State), Glenn Potter (Idaho), Stan Watts (BYU).
“Right now, it’s an extraordinary place with a ton of juice,” said Pope.
Back when Pope was recruited, he explains, it was a different time and era. For instance, there was no ESPN programming like today, there was no social media, no Twitter, no internet or Instagram and he got most of his sports from magazines like Street and Smith’s and Sports Illustrated. He did not grow up a BYU fan, was not in the legacy fold, not a part of all the Cougars lore, and he simply decided to sign at nearby Washington; Kentucky later called and he helped win a national title as a Wildcat.
His decisions back in the 1990s had less to do with BYU’s staff, led by Reid, and its program than with the world he lived in in the Northwest and his disconnect with Provo. They were two very different worlds, he says. Today he loves Reid, respects him and considers him a loyal friend and supporter.
“I think there are really special things here whether it’s what our players were able to accomplish last year or the special tradition and history. We have great coaches and great players that have come before. The facilities are really genuinely on par with the best programs in the country and the academics are really pretty extraordinary,” said Pope.
“And then the reach we have in terms of fan base, which is a big part of our national recruiting, and the reach of our digital media marketing and BYUtv is something that really no other school can even come close to.
“So, I mean this sounds so bland because everybody knows it, but I think it’s really fun to recruit to BYU,” he continued. “I think it’s pretty special. We are recruiting hard to our locker room. We believe that our locker room is a special place. We believe that we actually have an inherent advantage over every other school in the country or most schools in the country in terms of the filters that we go through so that our locker room continues to be an incredibly special place. And that’s the whole recruiting pitch right there.”
So, today, how would he recruit a Chris Burgess, a nationally ranked top player to his program? Back in the ’90s, Burgess chose Duke over BYU in a high-profile battle for the member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Pope believes he could get Burgess.
“Chris would be really easy,” claimed Pope, as three decades of debate is simply washed away about Burgess not signing at BYU out of Woodbridge High in 1997, months after Reid lost his job in December 1996.
“Chris to BYU makes perfect sense,” said Pope.
“He’s the No. 1 player in the country. He needs to play for a top-20 team. He was a gifted offensive player and so he needs to come play for one of the top one, two or three offensive teams in the nation (BYU).”
A
Continuing how he’d recruit Burgess, Pope says he’d tell Burgess he really needs to come to a program that spaces the floor and really attacks. “A place where we really shoot the 3, which was one of his talents, the ability to be a face 3-up shooter. He needs to come to a place where he’s gonna love every day of his basketball experience and he’s got a unique opportunity to deal with teammates that have very few distractions going on in their lives.”
Pope said as the No. 1 player in the country, he’d tell Burgess he needed to have a platform and media reach, not only from outside but internally. “We certainly have the ability to go to extraordinary lengths to do that.”
“He needs to play for coaches who played where he wanted to go and we certainly have done that as a staff,” Pope continued. “He’d be playing against some of the best teams in the country last year. For most of the season we played some of the top 10 or 20 teams in America, the top three (NCAA) seeds. You know, I don’t think it is hard (to recruit a Burgess).”
So, for Pope, signing Burgess today would have been a no-brainer. “We would have got Chris. I wouldn’t think twice about that.”
If BYU’s staff in 1991 would have had a Lee Anne Pope as a wife on staff, would that have helped sway him?
“Be careful there,” said Pope. “There are rules. But if the NCAA ever loosened up and lets me take Lee Anne on the road, it’s all over. That deal would be done. Walking into a player’s home with Lee Anne to talk to his mom? I’d actually feel sorry for the kid because they would no longer be able to make their own choice.
“But certainly, we when come back to a normal cycle, Lee Anne plays a huge role in it in Provo as does Danielle (Fueger), Lesa (Burgess) and Meagan (Robinson), and all the coaches, their wives and families. This is 100% a family affair. We are really blessed that way to have a great team recruiting.”
Back in 1991, Pope said his recruiting was such a blur that he doesn’t remember that much. What Reid could have said or done, he simply does not know. Pope said back then recruiting was crazy and maddening with 13 or 14 home visits and you didn’t have the ability to know more about programs, campuses and exposure to what people offered.
“I love Roger Reid. I think he’s big time. He obviously did great things for this program. To be honest, I didn’t grow up knowing much about BYU,” Pope said. “I really think that at the time, if I’d had a chance to sit down with Roger and his staff, it would have been hard to turn down. It’s a special place.”
With the new practice annex, combined with a blossoming media marketing bullet, BYU has become a much easier sell today. He can tell a kid from Amsterdam his parents can watch his games at BYU most of the time either on ESPN or BYUtv.
“I love Roger Reid. I think he’s big time. He obviously did great things for this program. To be honest, I didn’t grow up knowing much about BYU. I really think that at the time, if I’d had a chance to sit down with Roger and his staff, it would have been hard to turn down. It’s a special place.” — Mark Pope
“It means something. But it means even more when my kids get on campus and see it. It is demonstrated in so many ways like these incredible ‘Deep Blue’ profiles that BYUtv puts out about our players and coaches.”
Pope praises BYU’s messaging engines of promotion and coverage.
“I know it’s a tiny thing, but there is no coach’s show anywhere in the United States for any sport that can even come close to the production quality that we do at BYU with these coaches shows. The social media content and marketing is so big time and it’s all from this wellspring of not just facilities and studios but some incredible talent that is behind it. (BYU is) one of the top advertising schools in America, one of the top business schools and all of those things coalesce as well as really terrific, ingenious market crew in the athletic department.
“You kind of harness all of that stuff, which we’re barely in the infant stages of trying to do, and I think it turns into something pretty special.”
Pope said the impact BYU fans are having on his ability to recruit to the school has become an off-the-charts tool in his bag. “It’s been unbelievable. Really, it has.”
Pope relates the story of meeting Rose when he was hired to be his assistant coach out of Wake Forest in 2011. He talks of how impressive Rose was and how much he respected and began to love him, how generous he was and what a great job he was doing.
At Salt Lake International Airport after his interview for the BYU assistant coach job, Pope was headed back to North Carolina. Rose leaned in and shook his hand to say goodbye and winked and asked, “If I had been here and recruited you, wouldn’t you have come here?”
Pope looked at Rose and replied, “You know coach, that’s probably true.”
Next: Breaking down Chris Burgess as a BYU recruiter.