A special study committee, set up to examine how Utah's 104 part-time legislators deal with ethical issues, will better define how lawmakers may interact with the executive and judicial branches of government.
That task is not directly related to a recent incident where a state House member asked Gov. Jon Huntsman Jr. to fire one of his Cabinet members — but the committee's work could clarify that and other concerns.
The committee will try to deal with "the complexities when you have people with feet in both worlds — the political and private life and business," says Rep. John Dougall, R-Highland, co-chairman of the Ethics Interim Study Committee. GOP legislative leaders asked for the better definition before the case of Rep. Carl Wimmer, R-Herriman, came to light.
Wimmer wrote Huntsman a letter asking him to fire Francine Giani, executive director of the Department of Commerce. She oversees several agencies, including the state's Securities Division, which at the time was investigating Rick Koerber, a Wimmer political supporter.
Contacting either the governor's office or speaking directly to state agency bosses on behalf of a constituent is "part of our duties," says House Speaker Dave Clark, R-Santa Clara.
But House Minority Leader David Litvack, D-Salt Lake, said he would never personally try to get a state employee fired, and doing so "is outside our scope as legislators."
Clark said he can't speak directly to the matter of Wimmer, one of the more conservative members of the 53-strong House GOP caucus, because Clark doesn't know all the facts in that case.
Wimmer says he did contact Huntsman's office a year ago to tell the governor that he should fire Giani, but only because the securities office had told Attorney General Mark Shurtleff that he shouldn't "trust" Wimmer on the Koerber case because Wimmer had invested money with Koerber. Wimmer says that is not true — he never invested money with Koerber — and that securities officials knew it was not true.
Wimmer said he just set up meetings with Shurtleff and others with Koerber, "doing what representatives do."
Huntsman didn't fire Giani, who remains department director. But Wimmer said he still believes new leadership of the department is needed. Wimmer said he has not, and won't, ask Lt. Gov. Gary Herbert (who will soon step up to the governorship) to fire Giani. Herbert has said he plans on keeping all of Huntsman's Cabinet officers.
But Wimmer defends the right of legislators to comment on and suggest all manner of actions to the governor, as any other citizen may.
Ultimately, Shurtleff's office declined to indict Koerber. Giani's investigators then took their evidence to U.S. Attorney Brett Tolman, who indicted Koerber on fraud charges this spring. Shurtleff's refusal has led to questions about his and Wimmer's actions, although both men saying they acted properly.
Clark said he has on several occasions called state officials and related his concern over various issues. However, he said he's never asked Huntsman or anyone else to fire a state employee.
"I don't know about getting out the hanging rope or loading the six-gun," said Clark, a southern Utah banker, concerning any legislator's request that a state worker be terminated.
However, Clark notes that after an audit of the division by the Legislature Auditor General was conducted last year, there was an employee shake-up at the division — "so there clearly were some problems there."
Wimmer and Rep. Jim Bird, R-West Jordan, both asked for the legislative audit. And while Wimmer was concerned at the time about how Koerber was being treated/investigated, Bird had different concerns about Securities Division operations.
The audit, in fact, was critical of the division, finding there was poor employee morale, lax management and inadequate investigatory procedures. The division has had four directors in the last five years.
In some cases, a criminal complaint against an individual was dismissed in court only to see the division file a subsequent administrative complaint. The accused then had to go back to court to get that administrative complaint dismissed, as well, auditors said, giving the appearance, if not the fact, that division officials were overly aggressive.
"We should pass along (to executive bosses) if we have a negative experience, or a constituent does, with state employees," said Litvack. But a legislator should never threaten anyone or ask for anyone's firing, he added.
E-mail: bbjr@desnews.com