Sen. Orrin Hatch and challenger Pat Shea met for the first time in the campaign Friday - and actually hugged each other - but only because a debate moderator invited Shea to briefly share the same platform as Hatch.
The speeches, not a debate, before a convention of the Utah League of Cities and Towns, brought some good-natured jabs and a challenge by Shea for both candidates to release their income-tax returns.Democrat Shea is unhappy that Hatch, an 18-year GOP incumbent, has agreed to only four debates this year. Hatch was confronted by Shea on the debate issue after KTVX Channel 4 reporter Chris Vanocur, acting as moderator, invited Shea to come up from the audience as Hatch wrapped up his 45-minute question-and-answer period before the convention.
Hatch was asked point-blank why he refused to debate Shea at the league meeting because the league originally wanted a face-to-face debate. Hatch only agreed to address the group if he and Shea didn't share a stage, if each had his own time to speak and answer questions.
Hatch said he didn't accept a debate-style format at the league because he didn't know if he could make the Friday convention. "But the Senate wasn't going to be in session today, so I came out to Utah Wednesday night" at the last minute, Hatch said.
Candidate debates
Shea tried to pin Hatch down on a planned Oct. 12 debate scheduled by the Utah Chapter of the Society of Professional Journalists. Hatch said he'd make the Oct. 12 debate if the Senate wasn't in session. "But if it is, I won't be there. I'll be doing (the people's) business in Washington, and I'll send someone of stature (in his place), someone like (former) Sen. Jake Garn."
Shea and Hatch's side-by-side banter was the most interesting moment of the meeting, which saw both candidates talk about health-care reform, water rights and states' rights.
It also saw former state GOP Sen. Dale Stratford, now a councilman from South Ogden, heckle Shea when Shea, in his closing remarks, challenged Hatch to release his income-tax returns from 1976 to 1993.
"I've made my income-tax returns from 1976 to 1993 public," said Shea.
He said Hatch should do the same to show the public that officeholders haven't accepted monies that could influence them.
Shea has said before - but didn't repeat it at the league speech - that Hatch has increased his net worth 10 times since being elected to the Senate in 1976. Shea wants voters to know how that happened. Hatch campaign officials said they have not talked to Hatch about making his income-tax returns public.
Challengers often ask incumbents to release their tax returns.
When Wayne Owens first ran for the U.S. House in the early 1970s, he made his income taxes public. His GOP incumbent opponent refused. When Owens ran for the Senate in 1992, he was challenged by an opponent to make his income taxes public, but Owens declined to do it then.
Shea also said, in his closing remarks, that Hatch plans to run for president in 1996. Hatch has repeatedly denied he has any plans to do that.
In his closing statement, Hatch said he fully expects to win. "Don't send anyone back (to Washington) who will further help President Clinton. That's the biggest mistake you could make."
Shea was asked if he can win, considering Hatch has more money and a healthy lead in the polls with only 52 days left.
"I can," he said. "There's a sense of discouragement out there among Utahns. They don't feel that Washington cares or listens to them. But (winning) is a long shot, I grant you."
TV ads
Finally, Shea said that the copies of three TV ads run by Hatch in his original 1976 campaign, criticizing then-Democratic Sen. Frank Moss for serving 18 years, have disappeared from the special collections department of the University of Utah Marriott Library.
"Who took them, who knows?" said Shea, hinting that Hatch supporters are culpable.
However, library officials say it is unknown if the Hatch ad videotapes were ever part of a special Moss collection given to the library some years ago, because there is no catalog record of such tapes.
Hatch spokeswoman Heather Barney said Hatch did indeed have some 1976 TV ads that talked about Moss' 18-year tenure. It's safe to assume, Barney said, that Hatch still has those videos and won't be making them available to Shea. "We figured all along that Pat had those ads and would use those spots" against Hatch, said Barney.
Health-care reform
Hatch said he'll fight with every fiber in his body the passage of either Bill Clinton's or Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell's health-care reform measures.
Hatch supports laws that would mandate portability of insurance from one job to another, insurance reform, changes in Medicare and Medicaid, anti-trust reform and especially medical-liability reform.
All of that may get up to 95 percent of the people covered, Hatch said. "Then we expand minority, rural and community health-care centers to take care of the (rest of the people) who really need primary care. Those local programs work, we know it, but Bill Clinton doesn't want those solutions because he won't be able to say he helped the poor people - because local communities, not the federal government, will be helping them."
Shea said he supports the Mitchell plan. America has a wonderful health-care delivery system, said Shea, "but we've gotten ourselves to the point that unless you are super rich, one catastrophic illness can wipe you out financially."
Federal government
Hatch said he has a constitutional amendment - "That has a great chance of passing" - that would prohibit Congress from passing any mandates on state and local governments unless the feds provide the funds to pay for them.
"The crime bill mandates all kinds of things onto your backs that you don't know about," said Hatch, who voted against the bill.
Hatch said he's on a bipartisan board of Western officials who've been successful in getting administration policies in the West turned around - be they federalization of water rights, grazing fee increases or impractical environmental rules.
Shea said Clinton hasn't acted in a number of areas as he'd like.
"Bill Clinton doesn't represent the kind of Democrat I am," said Shea. "I'm a fiscal conservative. We need to rebalance the Constitution, eliminate these mandates."
He promised that if he's elected, every local official will be able to tap into Shea's office files through e-mail. "You'll know what I know. Better, when you come to Washington, D.C., to fight the federal government, I'll make available to you an office in my office. We'll literally be standing shoulder-to-shoulder" against bad federal programs or mandates, he said.
Shea said Hatch has picked committee assignments - judiciary and others - that don't help Utahns. "I'd sit on the Interior and Commerce, Science and Transportation (committees) that can help this state."