Joseph W. Grenny, a social scientist and New York Times best-selling author, has spent 40 years studying interpersonal relationships and crucial conversations, including conversations between devout members and their loved ones who have chosen to leave the Latter-day Saint faith.
Grenny has also spent years navigating and mending his relationship with his son, Samuel, who has stepped away from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
“The friction of relationships is the process through which we become like God,” Grenny said in a class at BYU Education Week.
At Education Week, Grenny delivered a presentation on what to say when loved ones leave the Latter-day Saint faith. Here are six steps he outlined to help individuals navigate relationships and crucial conversations with friends and family who have stepped away.
1. Breathe
Hearing a son, daughter or another loved one confess they are leaving their religious beliefs can make one feel under threat or like “something really important to me is at risk,” Grenny said. These feelings can quickly escalate conversations into conflicts that deeply hurt both parties involved.
The first — and most important — step to avoid this kind of hurt or damage to a relationship is to pause and take a breather, Grenny said. Of all of the steps, “if you just get No. 1 right, you’re going to do 60% better.”
Pausing to breathe helps to place perceived threats into perspective, Grenny explained.
It also helps to move brain activity from the amygdala (the part of the brain that processes emotions like fear and anger) to the prefrontal cortex (the part of the brain that controls high-level thinking and emotional regulation).
“You’ve already got good instincts,” Grenny said. “You’ve got a good soul. You’ve got good long term interests and so forth. … Sometimes we need a little more breathing.”
The Savior exemplified this principle of pausing when a group of scribes and Pharisees brought upon him a woman taken in adultery, Grenny said. At that moment, Christ knelt down and wrote on the ground. He paused.
Along with this step, Grenny advised listeners to — after they pause to breathe — validate their loved one’s feelings and their own feelings, too, and then to bookmark the conversation.
“Wow, that’s a lot. I can’t imagine what you’re going through. I’m sorry. I love you,” Grenny said, offering an example of what someone might say to their loved one.
“This is a lot for me, too. I’m gonna need a little time to absorb this to get to a place where I can show up the way I want to with you. Can we talk tomorrow?”
2. Feel and name your feelings
The next thing individuals can do to navigate their relationships with loved ones who have left the faith is to feel their feelings and name or acknowledge them, Grenny said.
“There is no such thing as a shameful emotion,” Grenny said, noting multiple examples of ancient prophets and the Savior feeling and acknowledging their emotions.
Individuals may find they feel emotions such as guilt, anger, regret, blame and sadness, Grenny said. Recognizing each emotion empowers individuals to not be possessed by them.
“The feelings you don’t name control you,” Grenny said. “The feelings you name, you have the potential of doing some work with.
“Unexpressed feelings don’t die. They go into the basement and lift weights, and when they come out, they’re bigger … and uglier than ever.”
3. Write the story
Once individuals have allowed themselves to feel and recognize their emotions they can begin to write or identify the stories behind them, Grenny said.
“All feelings are generated by stories,” Grenny taught listeners. They don’t just “erupt” out of nowhere, they are based on personal assumptions or distortions of reality.
A mom feeling guilt, for instance, may be telling herself she ruined her daughter’s childhood. Grenny said. A father feeling angry may be telling himself that it’s his daughter’s husband who drew her away.
“The emotions don’t happen by themselves, they come from stories,” Grenny said.
4. Challenge the story
Individuals working through their feelings and the stories behind them should then challenge the stories with others, Grenny taught.
“One of the best times to pray is right here in this step,” he said. “Ask the spirit, ‘What’s an eternal way of looking at what’s happening right now.’ Ask for that peace. Ask for that comfort.”
Grenny asked listeners to shout out examples of stories that could challenge the first. Their examples included:
- “Eternity is a long time.”
- “Her spiritual journey is gonna look different than mine and it’s a journey.”
- “This is what agency looks like.”
- “If the Savior isn’t threatened, maybe I don’t have to feel threatened either.”
As one changes the story, the feelings change, and so does one’s response to the situation, Grenny said.
5. Find your motive
The final step in preparing to engage with loved ones who have left the faith is to “find your motive,” Grenny said.
“One of the best ways to get the words right is to get the motives right, and the way to get the motives right is to stop and ask, ‘What do I really want here?’” he said.
Motives that divide include being right, compelling, punishing and avoiding conversations to “keep the peace,” Grenny said. “The only motive that unites us is sincere understanding — that’s the only thing that brings us together.”
Grenny listed some warnings to help listeners discern their motives. “You know you’re probably not in a great place, … when you bear your testimony rather than ask questions, when you warn them of eternal consequences rather than asking questions, when you debate their opinions rather than ask questions.”
Asking thoughtful, long-term oriented questions “makes the shift,” Grenny said. “It’s my prayer that we’ll learn to use these moments to create the oneness” the Savior desires.