They're all talking on daytime TV: oversexed teens, philandering husbands, prostitutes and porn stars. Politicians who want to shush this chatter call it "cultural rot."
Talk show hosts call it real-life entertainment. And, they say, viewers love it."People watch to have a good time," said host Jerry Springer. "Human beings love to talk about their personal lives, other people's lives, relationships."
Former Education Secretary William Bennett hopes to persuade people to quit watching and to persuade corporations to quit producing trashy television. He's adopted the issue alongside his crusade against violent and sexually degrading rap music lyrics.
There was a time, Bennett said Thursday, "when personal failure or marital failure, subliminal desires, perverse tastes were accompanied by a sense of guilt or embarrassment.
"Today, these are a ticket to appear on the Sally Jessy Raphael show to be broadcast for children to watch," Bennett said. This "cultural rot" is polluting America, he said.
Raphael responded by citing her own ratings. "It's a real elitist view for a guy like this to stand up and say, `I don't think 4.5 million people should watch this,' " she said in an interview.
Bennett, one of the Republican Party's most prominent voices on issues of morality and values, credited Democratic Sen. Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut with leading the charge against TV talk shows.
Lieberman worked with Bennett and civil rights activist C. Delores Tucker on the "gangsta rap" campaign. The group claimed a partial victory last month when entertainment giant Time Warner agreed to sell its stake in Interscope Records, a leading label for gangsta rap.
Bennett said he, Lieberman, Tucker and other volunteers, including Sen. Sam Nunn, D-Ga., would use similar tactics against the corporations that produce daytime talk shows, including Time Warner, Paramount, Fox and CBS.
They plan a letter-writing campaign and possibly radio advertisements to shame the shows' producers, advertisers and viewers. They aren't pushing any legislation.
"We are calling for better citizenship, not censorship," Lieberman said at a news conference with Bennett.
As the offenders, they pointed to some of the hottest names in daytime TV: Springer, Raphael, Geraldo Rivera, Maury Povich, Ricki Lake, Jenny Jones and Montel Williams.
They cited episodes titled "Get Bigger Breasts or Else," "Women Who Married Their Rapist" and "Is There Life After a Career in Porn?"
Rivera said the industry is already aware of the need to curb its excesses, and doesn't need Bennett or other outsiders to tell it how.
Talk show insiders plan a summit this weekend in New York to discuss ways to regulate themselves, Rivera said. He said that in recent years, he has "cut the fringes out of topic selection" for his show and often looks at serious subjects such as inner-city teenagers and the Oklahoma City bombing.
Last year, Oprah Winfrey announced her plans to stick to more high-minded topics. Lieberman applauded her for that.